by Michael E. Salla, PhD
December 3, 2004
What follows is based on an interview
with Charles Hall on Dec 2, 2004, regarding the existence of the
Tall White extraterrestrials that he met while serving at Nellis Air
Force base as a duty weather observer from 1965-67.
His experiences are recorded in his
three volume set of books,
I had earlier read the first two volumes of his book series and
recorded my impressions in a short article
I was put in touch with Charles Hall by Paola Harris who was the
first major UFO researcher to thoroughly investigate the case (see
In the interview, I asked a series of questions and recorded his
replies by taking notes. My aim in conducting the interview was to
get a better idea of the motivations of the íTall Whites í and their exopolitical significance on Earth. I begin this evaluation of my
interview by first outlining my questions and Charles Hallís
I finish with my evaluation of his testimony and books
which I believe is vitally important as a possible disclosure
initiative that will attract much public attention and carries great exopolitical significance.
Q. Why did you call the book a work of fiction?
He had to protect himself and men who served with him. He changed
names to protect the innocent, including himself and other
serviceman. People he replaced experienced severe psychological
pressure and trauma. Some wouldnít want to be mentioned so he didnít
give their correct names. He affirmed that everything in the books
is true. It is as close to a documentary of events he experienced as
Q. How did you recall all conversations recorded in the book?
He didnít keep a dairy, but kept a log book. He basically relied on
memory in writing the book. He relived the emotions as he covered
each experience, and this helped his recollection of events and
Key episodes were basically etched into his mind. He
had to summarize many conversations. Some conversations had to be
reconstructed. Usually conversations with other airmen are
summarized/reconstructed. Conversations with Tall Whites are close
to verbatim since the Tall Whites didnít talk much.
Tall White men
especially didnít speak much at all.
Tall White women were more
talkative than the men. If Tall Whites didnít wear their
communication equipment, then they wouldnít communicate at all.
Charles wanted to capture all the emotions he experienced and these
are faithfully recorded in the book.
Q. When did you start writing the books?
He first tried telling people verbally about his experiences during
1965-68. When he got a word processor in 1985, he began the typing
process using floppy disks. Writing was a slow process for technical
reasons and also emotionally since he relived the experiences and
this took much time.
For example, it took six months before he could
control his fears of the Tall Whites back in 1965.
Q. When did you finish the book?
Back in the 1980s he had trouble in finding a potential publisher
for his planned autobiography and also had family responsibilities.
In 2002 he became unemployed and began to edit, polish, and publish
what he had written so far. The publisher he found, Firstbook.com
allowed him to publish it as a íprint-on-demandí book where he
controlled copyright, etc.
He is still not satisfied with what has
been published so far, and wants to edit the first volume one more
time. Basically the book was work in progress since 1985 up until
2002. Final editing was done from late 2002 to early 2003.
Q. Did you ever take photos?
He never took any photos. When out there by himself he was worried
about keeping himself alive and taking photos wasnít thought of.
Initially he thought he was dreaming (thatís why he believes
is called dreamland).
This was a reason why he never thought about
taking photos. Later when he realized that the Tall Whites were
real, he talked himself out of it when he went back to his base, so
he didnít think about photos.
Also, he didnít want to offend the
Tall Whites and stayed on his
best behavior. He didnít think taking pictures was prudent and might
offend them, and they could destroy the evidence anyway since they
always had access to his belongings.
Q. Did any of the other servicemen ever take pictures of
that you were aware of?
He was not aware of that happening, but recalled a paperback book
published back in early 1990s there is a set of pictures of Tall
Whites which he believes are authentic.
These were published by a
New Jersey housewife who traveled to Albuquerque New Mexico and said
that she waited on a public highway when she saw a scout craft and
she took six pictures of the Tall Whites standing 6í 6". He believes
photos are authentic. The implication was that some serviceman had
taken the photos and sent them to the author who gave a cover story
for how she got the photos.
He couldnít recall the name of the book
or the author.
Q. Have you ever been approached or briefed by agencies not to
disclose the events on Nellis?
No. He said that weather information was never classified. As a
weather observer he was never part of a classified project where
security oaths were taken.
The orders given to Charlie were
classified, but nothing he did was ever to be classified. That was a
decision taken by a committee including the Tall Whites and others
in the Pentagon. The idea was that Charlie would be free to interact
with the Tall Whites without being continually briefed. He said that
the American generals would do anything to get technology transfers.
Generals would permit Tall Whites to kill service men if they were
offended, threatened or harmed. He described an incident in his book
where a serviceman had to beg for his life when he yelled at a Tall
White child. The only reason the Tall White didnít kill him
according to Charles was that a Tall White male came over to the
Tall White female and told her that since the serviceman hadnít hurt
the child, the American generals wouldnít understand why she would
kill the serviceman.
Charles said that the generals however thought
military servicemen were expendable, and wouldnít allow any killing
by the Tall Whites to stop technology transfers.
Q. Were other servicemen killed by
Tall Whites for offending them?
He explained an incident back in
Sept 1965 near the mountain at
Indian Springs where the Tall Whites had their main hangar. One of
the cover stories for sightings of Tall Whites was that they were
big horn sheep in the desert.
One hunter wanted to shoot one of the
ísheepí and rented horses and went with his friend. The hunters
eventually separated, and one hunter went near the hangar where the
Tall Whites are based, and took a shot at one of the kids. The Tall Whites grabbed him and handed him to the human guards who were
military personnel. The human guards shot him and gave a cover story
for his accidental death. The guards found his friend and beat him
up, and threw him into the brig for about six weeks.
Charles said that usually if one wasnít hurting anyone and was just
unarmed and hiking, etc., Tall Whites wouldnít bother one.
Basically, they would kill if threatened if any way. They believe in
tit for tat.
If you did nothing to scare or hurt them, the worst
they would is to pleasantly scare you away.
Q. You say that the Generals were desperate for technology exchange
with Tall Whites , why do you say that?
They would do anything to maintain good relations with
to get technology.
The Tall White íTeacherí had conversations with
demonstrated this. American generals wouldnít stop Tall Whites if
they were intent on killing servicemen who had hurt any Tall White
Tall Whites exchanged technologies such as radio and
communications systems, but not faster than light speed technology.
Technology exchange was done on the basis on only those technologies
that would benefit Tall Whites, such as good radios and
communications that they could use as well if necessary.
He gave the example that the Tall
Whites would help with a nuclear
powered craft but not propulsion systems for deep space travel.
Anti-gravity technologies were not shared with the generals which
were deep space capable.
American generals were sometimes in the
scout craft of the Tall Whites so the technology for the scout ships
was shared to an extent since the scout ships were made on Earth
using materials here with the assistance of the US military. Tall
Whites sometimes participated in classified meetings and helped with
technology development. Charles describes how much of the technology
Basically, the Tall Whites would participate in
classified meetings by sitting in and helping with some well placed
Q. In vol one, you describe an incident where mental images entered
your mind about the Tall Whites in the frontier era, can you
Charles described how he was reading the History of the West, and
the history of Death Valley and Indian Springs, he remembered mental
images of Tall Whites in the frontier era when the
Tall Whites .
These images just entered his mind when the Tall Whites were nearby,
and left when the Tall Whites departed.
Q. In the book, you mention 1954 as the first time reports of the
Tall Whites were made in the vicinity of Nellis. Is there any
earlier date or evidence you would think would support the presence
of the Tall Whites presence in the area?
He said that the legend of
Range Four Harry (a description used for
the Tall Whites by servicemen at the Nellis base) went back at least
as far least 1954.
Q. Do you think these mental images you observed were real
historical events or fabricated?
He felt that the mental images were based on real historical events.
He noted that when the Tall Whites moved away, the images stopped.
This suggested that the Tall Whites were feeding him these images to
give him historical information that they wanted to pass on.
Q. Do you believe that Tall Whites have been in the
area for a couple of hundred years?
Yes. He was told that
Pamela (a Tall White) was born in that valley
during the James Madison era. They like the valley because itís hot
and that is an important requirement for them.
What do you think the motivations of the Tall Whites are in terms of
their presence on Earth?
They used the base as a place for their deep space craft. Same as
the way US Navy would use a base in the Pacific. They used the base
to refuel, repair and refit their deep space craft.
He talked about
the long distances in space and need for a base on a planet like
Earth where they can get supplies, make repairs, etc. Since deep
space craft arrived and left on schedule, this meant they were
engaged in commerce.
Q. Basically you believe they just wish to use
Earth as a base for
their deep space travel, and donít have any ulterior motive to
colonize the Earth or dominate national governments?
his belief. From the Tall Whiteís point of view, they
are very happy with what they have, and their long life span - ten
times longer than we do. They took ten times longer to age and also
to heal. They were amazed at how quickly Hall could heal, and he
described how they watched him closely when he bruised himself and
healed within a day.
Charles argues that the Tall Whites like to keep to themselves, and
donít have any interest in dominating the Earth or taking over
governments. They just want to maintain friendly relations with the
US government so they can continue to use the base. He affirms that
they are not interested in dominating or colonizing the Earth.
Q. In vol three, you describe an incident where you were burned by microwave weapons, can you elaborate?
He explained how the pencil weapon can be used by the
Tall Whites to
cause great pain, death, or sleep. He describes an incident where a
CIA guard tried to help a Tall White female in getting up the stairs
at the Congressional building, but the guard inadvertently hurt the
Tall White and she threatened CIA guard who had to beg for his life.
He explains that the pencil weapon can be used to stimulate calcium
atomic frequencies to cause great pain like being burned, but one
was not actually burned. When the iodine setting is used by the stun
gun it can cause one to bleed to death. He compared this to the
black plague when people would bleed to death due to arteries being
weakened and blood would leak out causing death.
In an email,
Charles clarified how the pencil weapon works:
"The pencil weapon
could be set to stimulate the atomic frequencies of Sodium,
or Iodine. Stimulating the Sodium atoms caused immense pain because
it caused the nerves to discharge. If the weapon is set high enough,
it can cause instant death. Stimulating the Calcium atoms caused
the reverse (i.e. sleep, calmness, relaxation etc) because it
causes the nerves to reset and relax.
Stimulating the Iodine atoms,
of course, as described in book three, causes death by internal
bleeding because it causes chemical changes that allow the blood to
pass through the walls of the arteries in and around the thyroid
He said that Tall Whites tempers can change very quickly from
friendly to hostile.
The pencil weapon was used against Charles in a
misunderstanding that was described in his book where but the iodine
setting was used which caused internal bleeding. He recalls seeing a
friendly Tall White female approach him when he was lying hurt and
she did a kind of graceful dance around him. In an email he
described that Tall White as "a young female," probably equivalent to
a human young woman of age 19.
She stood approximately 5í10 - 5í
11íí tall. She had a male companion who I always guessed was her
brother because the two of them looked like fraternal twins. She and
I were completely unafraid of each other.
On a number of
evenings when I was making the morning balloon run, she would come
up and stand beside or near me or slightly behind me. Frequently she
would come within armís length and still not show the slightest fear
of me. Likewise, when she came in that close, I also did not feel
any particular fear of her either. Her brother, by comparison, was
always noticeably afraid of me and always kept his distance from me
( usually he stayed back at least 50 - 60 feet ).
He obviously liked
me, but also, he obviously never trusted me. For example, he would
never turn his back to me when he was anywhere in my area ( i.e.
within a 100 feet ).
Q. If this could occur to you after all the trust that was developed
with the Tall Whites , what does that suggest for most members of
The idea that Tall Whites can turn on one and use weapons even
despite all the good things that have been done is generally
correct. Tall Whites differ very much in temperament and personality
as do humans.
He explained an incident involving a Tall White
general who wouldnít brook any discussion and could be cruel if he
felt he was not being obeyed to the letter. Yet the Tall White
doctor was quite friendly and would approach very closely. So
basically the Tall Whites are quite varied in terms of personality.
The Tall White captain described in
Charles book was a nice enough
guy, but he only came around humans when it was necessary. He only
wanted to know about humans to the extent it would help him do his
job. A cultural difference was evident as in cases where Americans
might befriend a Japanese, but wouldnít want to socialize with
He stressed that Tall Whites vary tremendously in
Q. When was the last time you directly communicated with a
He referred to what was described in book three which is when he
left for military service in Vietnam in 1967. Subsequent to then, he
has had no communication with the Tall Whites .
Final Comments by Charles Hall
There are many episodes he had that he didnít include in the book.
For example, in 1965 American generals were showing Tall White
Generals through the military barracks that he slept in. When that
first started happening, he thought he was dreaming. He remembers
Generals talking to Tall Whites about taking Air force officers with
the Tall Whites on scout craft.
In an email, Charles elaborated on
"The American Generals were
discussing the possibility of the
Tall Whites taking two young American Officers
on board the Tall Whiteís Black Deep Space craft (i.e. to another nearby star). I
personally saw the American Generals themselves with their Tall
White counterparts boarding and deboarding the white scout craft."
He thought the discussion was too risky to include since it included
what he felt was sensitive material that was probably classified.
He stressed how the Tall Whites would follow agreements to the
letter. He gave the example of an agreement he had with the Tall
Whites. They would basically never sneak up behind him and scare
him, and he would be sure to never do the same to him to them. This
agreement was closely followed in all the interactions Charles had
with the Tall Whites and helped him survive.
Basically, he believed
the Tall Whites could be trusted once they had agreed to something.
Evaluation and Exopolitical Analysis of Charles Hall
I found Charles Hall to be very credible and compelling in his
response to questions.
He displays great integrity and is quite
sincere in describing solely the facts concerning his experiences.
He described his experiences with the Tall Whites in a very
objective manner, and the emotional reality of the experiences were
quite vivid and conveyed much information about his state of mind
and the seriousness of the experiences he had.
The emotions that Charles objectively described in great detail conveyed the extent to
which what he was experiencing shook his world view, and the world
views of those around him.
Charles knowledge of the Tall Whiteís interaction with the US Air
force generals is very enlightening in terms of the way agreements
were followed to the letter. It appears that the Tall Whites are
quite legalistic and this appears to be something that the US
military finds to be helpful in working with them. This is very
significant in the technology exchanges which Hall describes were
vitally important for the US military. The Tall Whites were quite
clear that only certain categories of technology would be shared.
Categories that presumably would not give the US military deep space
capabilities. According to Charles, this technology exchange
involved the US collaborating in the construction of scout craft
used by the Tall Whites . Providing the required material for the
Tall Whites presumably would have helped US scientists understand
the principles of space flight.
Since this is what Charles observed
in the mid 1960s, it may be presumed that larger constructions may
have been more recently attempted that have more advanced propulsion
systems than nuclear power. The exopolitical question here is what
would the Tall Whites gain or have gained in return for allowing US
authorities to collaborate in building larger space craft. If
technology for smaller scout craft was given in exchange for basing
rights, what Earth resources would be or have been traded for larger
constructions using more advanced propulsion systems?
Charles Hall comes across as very thoughtful and very intelligent.
He has a Masterís degree in nuclear physics and believes he
has worked out some of the main principles of the Tall Whiteís deep
space propulsion system. He doesnít pull any punches in describing
the intimidating behavior of the Tall Whites , and their readiness to
use deadly force to protect themselves and especially their children
against potential threats - intended or otherwise.
or scaring Tall White children could lead to Tall White adults
intimidating humans with their advanced weaponry as his book makes
Significantly, in his book he describes how the Tall Whites
would threaten to kill humans who scared or disobeyed them
HERE). In the interview,
however, he focused on how the Tall Whites would only respond when
they were threatened in some way. He stressed the principle of "tit
for tat" that the Tall Whites followed which is well understood in
human society and is a principle found in biblical documents (lex
talionis). It appeared that in the interview, Charles was portraying
the Tall Whites in a more reasonable light than described in his
While it was clear that Charles was being as objective as
possible, the discrepancy between his book narration and the
interview in terms of the conditions when Tall Whites threatened to
kill or intimidated military servicemen and humans in general,
suggested he was painting a more sympathetic picture of their
behavior than in the book.
This is something I hope he can clarify
later since it helps contextualize the motivations of the Tall
Whites on Earth.
Charles describes the Tall Whites as having no ulterior designs on
the Earth in terms of colonizing it or taking over governments. He
stressed the analogy of the use of overseas bases by the US military
such as in the case of US bases in Italy or the Pacific. The idea
was that the use of such bases was purely done to facilitate the
operations of the US military, while recognizing local sovereignty
and customs. So just as the US government/military has no ulterior
motive for control of Italy through its base there, so too the
Tall Whites have no ulterior motivation to control the
This is quite a controversial argument since the control of bases
throughout different periods of history is quite contentious, and
was part of the dynamics that drove colonialism. Indeed, the
existence of military bases in the Saudi Arabia were a major factor
influencing regional perceptions of US motivations in the
East, and influenced events in Afghanistan and
If the Tall Whites need the Earth as a base for their deep space operations and
commerce, then it would be naÔve to believe they have no interest in
influencing human affairs, and political institutions. Human history
shows that when foreign powers establish bases on oneís territories,
itís hard to get such powers to leave, and to prevent them from
interfering from local political affairs.
We may have already
achieved that point due to agreements reached between the secret
committees managing extraterrestrial affairs and the Tall Whites .
Charles believes that the Tall Whites have been on Earth since
least the early 1950ís, and possibly as long as a hundred years or
more based on what some Tall Whites related to him, and mental
images he received when reading about local history of Indian
springs. This will be a critical question to explore since obviously
the time of the first appearance of the Tall Whites on Earth will
influence our assessment of their ultimate goals here.
If they have
been here for a century or more as Hall suggests and which he was
influenced to believe from the Tall Whites, then it would be fair to
assess that they have no ulterior design on controlling the Earth.
Presumably, they could have easily taken over control of the Earth
in the early 19th century.
If however the Tall Whites appeared
subsequent to the
1954 Eisenhower-ET agreements, then it is very likely that the
Tall Whites have ulterior motives
which go significantly beyond merely resupplying and repairing their
deep space craft on route to other interstellar locations.
of time travel technologies might be used by the Tall Whites to
buttress the idea that they have been on Earth for centuries, but
this could be entirely fabricated.
I believe that the Tall Whites were associated with the
Eisenhower-ET meetings and that they subsequently established their
base in the Indian Springs area of Nevada in that time period. It
was clear that Charles was subtly influenced by the Tall
believe they have been present in different periods of US history.
The ability of the Tall Whites to refer to earlier historical
periods and their presence is possibly due to advanced technologies
such as time travel which they can use to influence our perceptions
of their historical presence. This will be naturally controversial
but is vitally important as knowledge of the Tall Whites becomes
more widespread, and their exopolitical significance is discussed.
In sum, my view is that Charles Hall testimony is vitally important
information that has great exopolitical significance, and is likely
to gain widespread public interest. Already, various media outlets
are treating the Charles Hall story as a major disclosure event, and
Hallís obvious integrity, clarity and coherence is generating much
Hallís disclosure of his experiences at
Force base at Indian Springs from 1965-67 will likely play a major
role in public disclosure of the extraterrestrial presence, and will
help shape public perceptions of extraterrestrials and their
presence on Earth.